up vote 3 down vote favorite

Right now the tag is used for both the mitzva deorayta of counting the Omer, as well as the unrelated period of mourning that happens to coincide with these days. The two are (at least on a peshat level) completely unrelated. Perhaps they should be differentiated?

share
Do we really need a tag just for the mitzvah of counting the omer? – Monica Cellio♦ Apr 17 '12 at 14:02
@MonicaCellio we have less-applicable tags. I see at least three questions about counting (and I just glanced at the first few questions of this tag) – Baal Shemot Tovot Apr 17 '12 at 14:11
1  
Deorayta? I think we hold nowadays that it is derabanan. – Double AA♦ Apr 17 '12 at 16:37
1  
@Vram I didn't know we paskined out of the Mishneh Torah. he.wikisource.org/wiki/… – Double AA♦ Apr 17 '12 at 17:40
1  
@DoubleAA look at Seif 3, where he defends Rambam with the gemara. Doesn't seem to me that the Aruch Hashulchan decides one way or another. (Besides, who is "we"?) – Baal Shemot Tovot Apr 17 '12 at 17:59
@Vram The AH always defends the Rambam's shittah when it's questioned (at least he says that in his hakdama), but that doesn't mean he paskins like him. See also the second Beiur Halacha on 489 where he claims that Maran HaShulchan Aruch and the Tur agree with me. (I wasn't aware you were Teimani...) – Double AA♦ Apr 17 '12 at 18:02
1  
@DoubleAA I wasn't aware that I'm Yemenite either. That doesn't mean that I accepted the Biur Halacha or AH (or any single work) as my conclusive pesak halacha. – Baal Shemot Tovot Apr 17 '12 at 18:16
@DoubleAA besides for the Mishnah, of course! – Baal Shemot Tovot Apr 17 '12 at 18:23
@Vram I don't think either of those is necessarily a conclusive pesak halacha. But I do think that it's hard to prove what we hold nowadays by quoting one rishon, even if it is the Nesher HaGadol. You're welcome to bring other sources to the table, but Tur, Shulchan Aruch, Mishnah Berurah and Aruch HaShulchan beshem Rov Poskim is לענ"ד a יש על מי לסמוך – Double AA♦ Apr 17 '12 at 18:33
1  
@DoubleAA In terms of what the Shulchan Aruch holds: check out the Gr"a. I'm not very clear on his conclusions, but if I understand correctly, he holds that the shulchan aruch is choshesh for the opinion that its min hatorah. (See, for example, his comment on Seif 8.) Let me know what you think. – Baal Shemot Tovot Apr 17 '12 at 19:15
1  
@Vram Indeed he does seem to imply that, but ends up in a tzarich iyun because of it. I'm not sure why he goes that way. The Mishna Berurah's explanation of the din is satisfying and doesn't involve holding like a lot of weird shittot. So tzarich iyun on the Gra. – Double AA♦ Apr 18 '12 at 2:40

3 Answers

up vote 3 down vote

An amendment to @msh210's answer: have two tags, and , with the latter covering both this period and the three weeks. If that grows too large over time we can split it.

share
On second thought, I don't know if combining all the communal mourning questions is such a good idea. As of now we have 13 nine-days and 11 three-weeks plus ~20 from sefirat-haomer. Combined, that's bigger than most tags we have now. I'm not saying it's for sure a bad idea; just that I'm second guessing. – Double AA♦ Apr 23 '12 at 4:30
How big should tags be? I thought having 50+ questions in a tag was fairly normal for SE; in fact, you can't even get the tag badges until there are at least 100 questions, which seems to indicate design intent. (Not that tag badges are a motivating factor; I'm just pointing out the threshold.) – Monica Cellio♦ Apr 23 '12 at 14:18
Under this scheme, would questions about Sefira-time mourning get both of these tags? If that's so, I support this alternative. – Isaac Moses Apr 23 '12 at 17:57
@IsaacMoses, I would say yes, in that case apply both tags. – Monica Cellio♦ Apr 23 '12 at 20:04
MonicaCellio, and then the currently nine-days- and three-weeks-tagged questions would be tagged with their current tags and also communal-mourning? That seems redundant. Ping @IsaacMoses too. – msh210♦ Apr 30 '12 at 17:33
@msh210 I would imagine they should only get the time-specific tag in addition if the question is unique to that time-period. – Double AA♦ Apr 30 '12 at 17:38
1  
@msh210, That's the standard subset problem - just like, e.g. Sukkot and Yom Tov. I'd suggest that if the question is about mourning during the Nine Days, it should get both tags. If it's about communal mourning spanning the Nine Days and Sefira, it should either get just communal-mourning or that and the two period-based tags (the latter mostly if we're comparing and contrasting). – Isaac Moses Apr 30 '12 at 17:38
@DoubleAA, IsaacMoses, the problem in this case is that I doubt there will be many questions about s'fira and the three weeks or nine days (unless such as compare/contrast them), simply because the rules for the one time period differ from the rules for the other. – msh210♦ Apr 30 '12 at 18:29
Ping @IsaacMoses too. – msh210♦ Apr 30 '12 at 18:29
@msh210 I imagine most shaving/haircut/music/wedding questions fit nicely both ways. It's really when you hit the nine-days that you start having differences: meat/wine/bathing/laundry. – Double AA♦ Apr 30 '12 at 18:34
I erred in my previous comment. I think communal-mourning questions should just get the communal-mourning tag -- sefira, nine days, three weeks, all of 'em. Tags are buckets, and it's ok to have to root around in the bucket a bit if you're looking for something specific. Otherwise we're going to end up with questions with three different mourning tags, which seems cumbersome. Ping @IsaacMoses. – Monica Cellio♦ May 1 '12 at 3:06
Ping @msh210 too. – Monica Cellio♦ May 1 '12 at 3:07
up vote -1 down vote

I agree: it should be split. I suggest and .

share
I think we should have the sefirat haomer tag that we have. Then add the aveilut tag if that is relevant to the mourning. – Adam Mosheh Apr 18 '12 at 23:05
@AdamMosheh, would you please post that as an answer? Maybe it will get more net votes than my answer and we can adopt it as the community's will. – msh210♦ Apr 19 '12 at 1:14
How do entries tagged sefirat-haomer-mourning differ from those about the three weeks? If we want a separate tag for this, should it be more general, like mourning-periods? (I'm not sure how you distinguish from plain old mourning after a death; I assume they're different enough that we'd need to.) – Monica Cellio♦ Apr 19 '12 at 1:59
1  
@MonicaCellio, the rules for the three weeks differ from those for s'fira, and the rules for either differs from those for actual mourning after a death. There is of course a good deal of overlap. Perhaps you're right, though, that we should have only mourning-periods. Would you please post that as an answer? Maybe it will get more net votes than my answer and we can adopt it as the community's will. – msh210♦ Apr 19 '12 at 4:19
1  
@MonicaCellio Can I suggest you call it communal-mourning and adjust the current tag to personal-mourning? – Double AA♦ Apr 19 '12 at 5:46
@msh210, thanks for the explanation. I'll post that as an answer (taking DoubleAA's amendment). If the tag grows large we can always split it. – Monica Cellio♦ Apr 19 '12 at 13:09
up vote -1 down vote

For the sake of completeness (and so people can explicitly vote this option):

One tag is sufficient; there aren't that many questions on this and we have a lot of tags already.

share
Am I allowed to downvote this if my opinion was already presented in the question? – Baal Shemot Tovot Apr 19 '12 at 17:06
Ex-Vram, I think that's fine. The question doesn't show up in the ranking of answers, after all. – Monica Cellio♦ Apr 19 '12 at 18:02

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged